Receiving The Hidden Manna And The White Stone (rev. 2:17)

17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

Once again, like the two previous calls, the one who hears is called to obey. Hebrew has no word for obedience. To hear someone means to obey him. He who obeys is described as conqueror and overcomer. To this particular overcomer, Christ is promising something very special – hidden manna and a white stone with a new secret name. First promise is easier to interpret than the second one.

Manna is a symbol of God’s sustenance and provision for the people of Israel in the wilderness as they came out of Egypt in obedience to God’s call, risking their own lives to go to a land they would only later be shown. When Jesus spoke with the Samaritan Israelite woman (John 4), his Judean Israelite disciples were returning from a nearby town with food acceptable for consumption by the Judeans (Ioudaioi). The disciples asked among themselves if perhaps someone already had brought Jesus food. He then answered them that he had something that was now, in this passage in Revelation, also being promised to the one who overcomes – the hidden manna. He said: “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” (Jn.4:32) This secret food that “the rest” did not know about is nothing less than divine energy that is able to provide sustenance in the most unimaginable and perilous circumstances. This characterized the-soon-to-be reality for believers in Pergamum. Jesus promised this energy to the one who obeys God’s words. This is why the one who obeys also is the one who overcomes.

As to the identity of the white stone things are more complicated. Among the most-likely interpretations that may fit the context is a suggestion that the white stones, with names of the recipients inscribed, were given to contest winners of the Roman sport races. The white stone inscribed with a personal name presumably served as a pass to a prestigious banquet only attended by the winners. This stone would have been received upon completion of the race. While this is not a particularly Jewish cultural reference, we do know of many biblical examples of the use of Greco-Roman cultural references as illustrations for and by the Jews. For example, the Apostle Paul used many Roman sports metaphors to make his points (Phil. 3:12-14; 1 Cor. 9:24-27; 2 Tim. 4:6-8). The writer of the letter to the Hebrews also employed Roman sport imagery of running a race and receiving a winner’s wreath (See also Hebrews 12:1). This kind of imagery was well known in Judea that housed elaborate sports arenas. This kind of analogy much more closely matches the culture of the Roman city of Pergamum. No doubt the persecuted believers, both Jewish and former pagans, were aware of this practice and the elaborate banquets of honor for the overcomers/winners of the race. Most of the believers did not take part in these games by the virtue of the fact that the games included a dedication to the Roman gods. Christ tells them that in all reality they have not missed out on anything. The real race is the race of perseverance dedicated to Israel’s God. Whoever perseveres in this race and overcomes will receive a pass into the heavenly banquet of eternal honor.

Another intriguing possibility continues with the theme of priestly attire as was already used in the letter of Revelation. The high priest’s robe had 12 stones with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. One of the stones was actually white – Yahalom (it was a stone number 6), signifying the 6th son of Leah – Zebulun. What’s important about Zebulun? We read in Is. 9:1-7, quoted in Matt. 4:15 that:

“In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan. The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever.”

According to this interpretation, the sacred white stone is a symbol of Greco-Romans residing in Galilee who would receive light through the birth of Jesus. Could the secret here be the Messiah himself? Could the white stone point to Jesus through the yahalom stone once adorning the breast of the High Priest of Israel? Perhaps.

About the author

Dr. Eli Lizorkin-EyzenbergTo secure your spot in our new course “The Jewish Background of New Testament” - CLICK HERE NOW

You might also be interested in:

Three Plus Four: Jacob

By Julia Blum

Three Plus Four: Isaac

By Julia Blum

Join the conversation (58 comments)

Leave a Reply

  1. MO

    9/2/19 the white stone is PENUEL.. the white stone is in the middle of your brain and is your Crystal Radio to God’s BOOKS that records everything we think, do and say. You MUST understand each name in Gen 28 from Beersheba to Luz and you will understand what the white stone will understand what Jacobs pillow is.. The Holy Spirit came to me twice in 2017 and told me this twice>> READ Scripture as an anatomy book.. God is giving us a new mystery.. The Old King James bible is an anatomy book on how God designed and CREATED the human body.. You must use a revision around 1949 of the 1611 before man started messing with the actual words not knowing that Father hid a message here from Gen 2:10 to Rev… Zech 5:11 Must say Land of Shinar, Zech 6 Must say IN THEM Horses, Rev 2:17 In the stone, Math 3:3 OF and NOT For the Lord.. read to a higher thought process as a biology major and all will become clearer. WE ARE A CREATED BEING. Evolution is a crock and God spells it out in 66 books 1500 years apart..

    1. Amanda

      Thank you so much for posting this, perfect timing!

  2. B

    Beautiful thoughts. Thank you!

  3. Joe

    The white stone is s vision given to gods chosen. His elect. It looks like a rough pc of stone or marble and as a shadow passes over it becomes smooth and a symbol stands out. I’ve seen this in a vision 1993.

  4. Shane Barrett

    Do you think that Jesus actually gives you a white stone that you can actually possess and hold on your hand? Jesus has a church and calls it his true bride. He calls it his true bride because he is truly married to that church. When a man and woman get married the groom gives his bride his last name and they are joined not 2 but one. Didn’t Jesus’s name change in the bible after his sacrifice? True faith is needed here, you feel it, just keep his name holy. You better believe he really does give you a physical white stone with his new name on it, your new name. You dont believe? He says he will and he doesn’t lie. Do I believe he does, what do you think? THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!

  5. Thomas cawley

    I am requesting if by chance since your text was given in 2015 in regards to the white stone in where I believe the lord has given me after giving up to the best of my ability my fleahly desires as well a white and black stone than a third white stone so now I have two transparent white stones that have a split as well 1 that is pure deep white also is split is it possible for you or anyone else to shed light on these items with what they had possibly were meant for who and why

  6. Nesakumar

    Thanks for your studies

  7. RD

    Hmmm interesting theory. Holy spirit give me a white stone. I have new name and i know hidden mana is bread of life, water of life, Jesus, Holy spirit. If i get white stone, i know is not symbol but real white stone from real Holy Spirit.

  8. Kenneth gilley

    It is great stuff blessed be the God and Father of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.. Amen

  9. yetilived

    The Israelites were in the wilderness, the manna was used to test their hearts to see if they follow God’s instructions. If the manna represents Jesus, is the White Stone Jesus’ teachings?
    “So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith”.

    1. Ronald Westmoreland

      Stongs Concordance search the word faith

  10. Drs. Charles van den Berg

    In my opinion the “Hidden Manna” refers to the manna in the Golden Jug. Exodus 16:33, Hebrews 9:4 . The Manna is “hidden” in the Golden Jug. The Golden Jug is “hidden” in the ark. The ark is “hidden” in the Holy of Holies. The Holy of Holies is “hidden” in the Tabernacle.
    The fathers ate the manna in the wilderness and they die. The hidden manna in the Golden Jug that miraculously was not perishable, is a reference to the True Manna that is imperishable, Jezus Christ.

  11. Cornelius Bollier

    I don’t think, Jesus the Christ of God will never refer to the roman-greek way of doing things, and even so with their beliefs in so many gods. He came to the Lost People of Israel, to call them back to Yahweh His Father in Heaven again, and Gods Christ, Jesus, had to do this by His Word, as Gods Words, to recreate people and by which God created this world and mankind in the first place.
    So, Jesus is referring to His own words, as He called the Pharisees white tombs or stones of the tombs as ‘dead stones’ made white as self righteousness. White is here ‘justice’ and when He promised to give a white stone to righteous disciples, He meant to make then righteous as becoming white stones with a their new name given of God on them. Now, where comes the idea of a ‘stone’ from? In short, from the Law of God (torah). In the Breast Plate of the High Priest were symbolic stones: the 6th stone was – Quartz Crystal – Zebulun – Clear. When we call a diamond ‘white’, we mean ‘clear’ – without spot or blemish…! That’s exactly what Christ meant: ‘transparent’ – seeing Christ through man… a becoming like His Stature.
    Its quit a study, but when you know the characters and meaning of the 12 stones in the Breast Plate, you will discover the ‘white stone’ meaning in it! ‘GOD WITH US – Zebulon!
    But there is much more indicating the ‘white stone’ of Jesus Righteousness…. in those who have overcome this world and are ‘mighty ones’ reaching out toward he Kingdom of Heaven…!

  12. yetilived

    Atonement is a very different word than forgiveness to many modern readers. Hidden manna was given to a repentant person. Why would Jesus hide himself from a repentant person? How can Jesus offer forgiveness to someone that doesn’t know him? The hidden manna brings our death and Christ’s victory so that we can live (Romans7 & 8). There are two sides of victory (double edge sword). Faith and rest are two different words. The White Stone is connected to life.

  13. Chris

    The white stone I would say it has to do with forgiveness and from old forms of idolatry. It would also represent a time honored tradition that takes us back to the book of the upright and Enonch. When Enonch turned himself invisible he droped down a bunch of white stones with names written on them. If we remember that Christ sits at the right hand and that The book of Hebrews tells us he inhereted his throne from him through the priesthood of Melkesidec which is where Israel and Jersulam bare their names as well. Also in a hostorical context the stone tepresents a form of eternal thus he would be granted and saved from the second death as christ taught in the book of John and other gospels. I will ask the father and he will send another. He will judge the devil and he will judge those who do not believe in me. Etc. I will raise him on the last day… we see a theme here based around Christs new ability in heaven and how he can see the future once the seals are all brocken so that his fathers work or his work will be done and if we follow that he is talking about always we can see that Christ has a huge admiration for this specific individual. We see the book of Yasher playout in another prophet named Yoshua or Joshua who replaced Moses. This too shared a similoar understanding of being snatched from the fire and given forwgoveness.

  14. Maxhoba

    I enjoyed this article. God bless

  15. Diana

    Shalom Prof! This is quite interesting! that’s why when we study scripture we definately need Language, Context and Historical setting! I loved the interpretation of the white stone, that invitation to the banquet!

  16. Jerry Akinwe

    Thank you Dr. Eli for this exposition. Once again, I have learnt new things about the Hebraic culture…. to hear means to obey.

  17. yetilived

    I repented and started moving towards God’s authority(Commandments) without first hearing the gospel. I would like to know if this

    “As the LORD commanded Moses, Aaron put the manna with the tablets of the covenant law, so that it might be preserved”

    might be a shadow of following Christ.

  18. Dale Greer

    I have always thought that white is the sign of purity and those who persevere will be made pure, holy, perfect as the imperfect cannot inhabit heaven. The picture I have of the white stone and a new name is connected for me as a Christian persevering and it is the prize, eternity with God and a new name connected with the new character of a mature Christian. I remember being told that a person’s name was very important in Jewish literature and that name was associated with the true character of the person, so for me, the new name whatever it is will declare my sonship and joint heir to the throne of God. I can’t wait.

  19. yetilived

    I needed to read this in a Hebrew time perspective: past is in front of you and the future is behind you. The Hidden Manna and the White Stone were my future. My past being “Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life. Revelation 22:17

    Now I am open to Koine Greek 🙂

  20. Samuel

    I am beginning to understand more of the things in the bible than I ever thought, thank you DR Eli

  21. alfredo

    Dr. Eli. When I found about this discovery I instantly remembered the white stone in Revelations 2:17

    “It seems that the inscribed object was used to mark products or objects that were brought to the Temple, and it was imperative they be ritually pure. This stamped impression is probably the kind referred to in the Mishnah as a chotem, or seal. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first time that such an object or anything similar to it was discovered in an archaeological excavation and it constitutes direct archaeological evidence of the activity on the Temple Mount and the workings of the Temple during the Second Temple period,” archaeologists Eli Shukron of the IAA and Prof. Reich said in a statement.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Thanks, Alfredo. I don’t know how and if it connects to this section of Revelation, but the discovery is of course very important. Dr. Eli

  22. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

    Thanks, Arthur. Blessings, Eli

  23. Jaya kumar

    Thank you Dr ELI, God bless you always

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Thank you, Jaya! Dr. Eli

  24. Cornelius

    Yes, and another interpretation is also valuable, namely that a ‘white stone’ refers to sinlessness as one of the twelve stones in the Breast Plate of our High Priest, which indicates the class of rebirth of mind and spirit IN Christ… and so much more

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Thanks, Cornelius for your comment. Let’s keep thinking together. Dr. Eli

  25. James T. Mace

    Enjoyed the text, questions, and interpretive discussion. Keep up the fine work.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Thank you, my brother. Eli

  26. Oliveira Mungu

    I need to read your message but I speak French if is possibly you put again the French please

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      I do not have a way to do this in French. So sorry. Blessings, Dr. Eli

  27. Susana

    Thank you Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg … your article really helpful for me to prepare the material for Sunday School teaching….

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      This is wonderful to hear!

  28. Kat H

    I love how you encourage people to think. Different words in many articles jump out at me. This does seem like the two-fold revelation of Christ (I was dead, and now look, I am alive). Revelations by heavenly messengers explain the hidden manna, the name know only to the one who receives it, and predestination. Exodus 16:34 says that putting the manna with the stone tablets of the covenant law will preserve it. John 14:15 parallels this to asking for the Holy Spirit. Could the white stone represent the Kingdom (white symbolizing hair that is white like wool and snow)? I was reached with the gospel in two different ways. The One that holds the 7 stars in His right hand was Torah observant (Ex 16:34).  The others (evangelism) separated the Manna and the Law and all I could see was Christ’s death.

    1. yetilived

      I changed my question. Twice as much manna is gathered before the Sabbath. Is this why they would have had a two-fold revelation of Christ?

      1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

        I think God gave twice as much manna simply that it would be enough to last through shabbat during which there were not to get it. No connections with Christ that “jumps at me” in the two day paradigm. eli

  29. splenior

    “When you see the white stone, do not say ‘Water, water.'” — admonition to Jews seeking to learn to read the scripture using Pardes.

    When something is said twice, it means “in heaven and earth”.
    ‘White’ represents holiness.
    ‘Water’ is the word of God.
    And stone אבן is father ‘ab’ אב and son ‘ben’ בן joined. The stone that was split is a picture of the cross when the Father and the Son were divided.

    The admonition was written by rabbis who did not want Jews to see Jesus in their own scripture. So when they see the Holy Father/Son they are not to proclaim him to be the living Torah/Word, in heaven and earth.

    The admonition is followed by threats should they choose to proclaim Christ.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Well… :-). Not really :-). First of all, the text Bavli (Haggigah 14b) does not say “When you see the white stone”, instead it says literally (I bolded the actual text in Aramaic):

      “When you come to the pure marble stones”.

      ורבי עקיבא אמר להם ר”ע כשאתם מגיעין אצל אבני שיש טהור אל תאמרו מים מים

      Second point while you are correct that the rest of the Talmud’s page are about warning fellow rabbinic Jews not to engage in the Christian claims about Jesus, you are not correct about the stone being made up of two words (Av and Ben). The word stone (AVEN) is just that a word that is NOT made up of two (it is a not a compound word). There are many words in Hebrew that only sound like that but upon closer examination are not really 2-in-1 kind of words. We should be very careful not to read in the meaning into any text (such as what I think you did with the father and stone). Our theologies affect us more than we can imagine. Mine included. Let’s keep thinking together.

      1. splenior

        According to Rabbi Ginsburg, Hebrew letters have strokes with metaphoric meaning which combine into letters each having metaphoric meaning, which combine into two-letter sub-roots called gates, which then combine into larger roots and words. Each meaning is derived from the combination of underlying metaphors.

        The meaning of a gate has a reversal (not an opposite as the western mind would think.)

        שיש comes from the gate שש which means ‘bleach’ or ‘;white’. It is unchangeable since it is the same when the letters are reversed. The ש has a metaphor of the Spirit of God which returns to God having given life. Marble is the created thing which is white, or bleached.

        Even Strong identified שיש as coming from an unused root meaning to bleach.

        Rabbi Ginsburg seems to appreciate the breakdown of bereshit:

        ב – a revelation to man:
        ר – God revealed
        א – to that which he created in silence (or that he spoke and created the heavens and the earth)
        ש – that when he spoke there were two responses (heavens and the earth or ‘his word did not return void)
        י – what he conceived before the creation.
        ת – was finished.

        Rabbi Foreman, before he passed also approved of such methods.
        Rabbi Benjamin Blech also has a series of Books, where he does similar interpretation.

        Since Jesus said that all the scriptures spoke of him, isn’t it fair to impose his theology on them? The Rabbis say that the scripture is full of riddle, and we must wrestle with the answers for ourselves. But they refuse to look at Jesus who is the fulfillment of the dark sayings of God.

        Thank you for being accessible. I enjoy your writing.

        1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

          Sure (about being available 🙂 and thanks for your kind comments that you enjoy the writing.) About honorable Rabbi Ginsburg and other kabalists like him (with all due respect) are I think truly mistaken and misled by other teachers of Hassidut that went before them. (providing we are talking about the same rabbi) :-).

          I do not accept this way of interpretation. I consider it dangerous and unacceptable for several reasons: 1) We do not see this kind of interpretation practices in Scriptures (limited use of gematria is far as NT writers went for example) and 2) Once this method is adopted for interpretation it is amazing how many things can then be read into almost any word. If we do not stick to the grammatical meaning of the word, anything goes. In other-words when we hold a hammer in our hands, everything begins to look like a nail.

          So, I would not go by Rabbi’s Ginsburg’s interpretive methods. They are as I said simply mistaken and unscriptural. The fact that other Rabbis Blech and Foreman approved of such a methods only makes more of the same weak point that was already made by referring to the authority of rabbi Ginsburg.

          You write towards the end of your comment: “Since Jesus said that all the scriptures spoke of him, isn’t it fair to impose his theology on them?

          Answer: No I think, in fact, it is not fair :-). The second does not follow from the first! I think we must look to Jesus on in all Scriptures but not using methods that are highly speculative and questionable. We must learn how the NT writers did it and learn from them!

          You write: “The Rabbis say that the scripture is full of riddle, and we must wrestle with the answers for ourselves. But they refuse to look at Jesus who is the fulfillment of the dark sayings of God.””

          A.: Answering this statement is complicated by me disagreeing with you about the methods :-). I would recommend listening to Prof. Boyarin’s lectures on this very text you brought up earlier (four rabbinical figures entering pardes) on our website. If you are looking for incredible Jewish teacher. Daniel Boayrin should get the priority!

          Look for the Library in top menue. Then look for AUDIO and look for Professors Boyarin’s lectures.

          Or click here to get there directly (they are second from the top). Enjoy! What is your name by the way? I feel bad about talking with you without knowing how to address you properly :-). Dr. Eli

          1. splenior

            I am Bob, and happy to meet you.

            I suppose this is a topic that we will have to agree to disagree on.

            The mystery is something that has been hidden from the beginning.
            It is likely that Jesus taught how to see it when he was 12.
            During the next 17 years they perverted his teaching in order to hide that he was the Messiah. He calls them liars, not misguided teachers.
            He said the Kingdom of heaven was like leaven, which he used as ‘teaching’.
            And after he said he would give the keys to the kingdom, he showed the the pictures of the cross in the OT.
            He said the teachers would not enter in, nor would they permit others to enter. They had perverted the teaching so they would not see him as the Messiah.
            Jerusalem means ‘teaching of peace’ and the New Jerusalem means the New teaching of peace. Jesus ushered this in when he said “You have heard it said… but I say…”
            Then the Bereans were able to see the mystery as they challenged Paul’s testimony.
            Then the Jews warned against applying Pardes to Christ.
            And modern Jews tell us that the hidden meaning still speaks of Messiah.

            Pardes is not Kabbalah. Pardes is simply interpreting scripture literally (pashat), by reference (remez), by comparison (drash) which reveals the hidden mystery, which they say is Messiah.
            Kabbalah was invented to poison the well of pardes so that Jews would not see Christ in the scriptures when applying pardes. The warning is evidence that Pardes must reveal him, or there would be no need for the warning.

            When pardes is properly applied, every verse of every chapter of every book participates in a hidden picture of Christ which is validated by the NT. This is certainly not Kabbalah. Just because the rabbis apply it in a free-for-all fashion, does not make it dangerous for Christians when the rules are applied. When something is a metaphor, like garments being works, it must be that in every place. And the sod must speak of Christ in a way that is validated by the NT. The rabbis have no such controls. Rabbis have many answers to the riddles because they do not have THE answer which is Christ.

            However since you have already decided against it, showing you that in fact Jesus and the apostles actually did use it, will not get a fair hearing. And I suppose since you consider it dangerous, that a public discussion of it on your blog would be inappropriate, however I am happy to chat with you privately. I think you have access to my email through the blog.

            I would love to show you the birth of Christ in Gen 38, and how Paul teaches us to see it in Acts 12. The source of the prophecy that Jesus would be called a Nazarene, and how Matthew teaches us to find it. John’s use of pardes in John 1:1-4 as he interprets the first three words of Genesis 1.1.

            I believe I can show each method of Pardes being used by all of the NT authors. Is there a private forum where I can show you the evidence?

            Either way, the Jewish admonition against saying “water, water” supports your speculation that the white stone is Christ. Thanks again.

          2. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

            Agreeing to disagree seems to be in order. Blessings and much peace, Dr. Eli

          3. Fred Aguelo

            Dr. Eli,

            Thank you for always being patient and enlightening. I agree with you that we must be careful not to read what is not intended in the text. The overriding rule of interpretation has always been “stick to the context”, whether we use pardes or not. I believe that G-d means what He says in every word. What we see in present Hebrew alephbet is not the original one from Moshe but is actually Aramaic in origin (please correct me if I’m wrong). So, to impute meaning in each stroke is farfetch because much of what is written was first oral and since the original Torah was not written in the Aramaic text, we have a problem. I truly believe that the Word is only accurate 100% in the original; although the present Scripture is not really that far from the original. But we can’t just interpret whichever way we want. This would lead to confusion which is what the enemy wants us to do. Adonai is a god of order.



          4. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

            Indeed :-).


  30. Linda

    Thankyou for inviting me to your blog, i am so excited to learn more about our Father!

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Welcome to our community, Linda! Dr. Eli

  31. S.C.Harrison

    Another little clue, to the meaning of the white pebble (rather than ‘”stone”-different Greek word) is to be found in Acts26v10 where the Apostle Paul says in the Greek ‘I paid my pebble against them.’ The AV has ‘vote’ for pebble, so the meaning is clear! The black stone may have been for condemnation and may be the origin of the term “black-balling” and the white stone that of aquittal.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      I like that a lot. Thank you so much for your contribution! Dr. Eli

  32. Rhonda Frazier

    I would like to know everything about my savior

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Rhonda, let’s keep learning together!

  33. Nell Neathery-Hayes

    Thank you for an email inviting me to join your blog. I am blessed to have received it and being able to see what is here and what is available to me. I have shared with my membership in social media. Looking forward to learning here until one day when I can become an official student. 🙂

  34. Gneiss King

    Thanks very much for the study

  35. Marco Aurelio Rodrigues de

    Thank you for jewishstudies!

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Welcome to our forum, dear Marco! Dr. Eli

  36. Leah

    Very enlightening! Answered questions that I have had for years. Thank you!

    1. Brandy kelley

      It is supposed to remain a secret for what is told to us by the father is not for anyone else to know.