There are all kinds of somewhat strange (and really strange) things about this video and about Ariel Cohen Alloro. But it is surely intriguing to watch it and no doubt would be interesting to discuss it too within our study group. (You will have to get over the two participants’ interrupting each other a lot and the self-made feel of this video). In spite of the obvious problems with presentation, I present this video for your critical attention. (If you cannot see it in your browser because of the country restriction. You can go to www.youtube.com and search for Ariel Cohen Alloro Interview Part 2).
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Thank you for posting this Dr Eli. I learned so much about Hassidut, Gematria, Kaballah and especially how to be patient and gracious to a person who thinks he knows everything and has forgotten to listen.
Thank you for that, Eli. On reflection, I did came across rather extreme in what I said and, for the sake of brevity, did not express myself well I would never want to suggest that it is a simplistic black and white argument by any means. I merely see it in terms of minor emphasis. There was certainly symbolism in Greek philosophy, just as there is logical thinking in Hebrew writings. Perhaps my thinking was also influenced by the two languages themselves: Koine Greek being one of the most grammatically consistent languages I’ve come across. And yet I prefer Hebrew. And of course English is the least consistent of any language I know! As for Gematria/Numerology, that’s a whole different ball game! I realize there are many who do take that to an extreme, finding hidden meaning in many biblical passages. It is interesting, but not entirely convincing, IMO.
A fascinating video, full of symbolism and many interesting correlations that confirmed, for me, the totally different thought processes involved when people from different cultures approach Judaism and Christianity. I am a student of both Greek and Hebrew, and as such, I had an interesting discussion with my son yesterday on a similar topic, where I maintained that the Greek and Hebrew ways of thinking are quite different: the former being a logical, linear progression whereas the Hebrew is far more dependent on symbolism and less on simple, logical thinking where one problem has one solution. For example, to the Greek mind, one prophecy must have one fulfilment; to the Hebrew mind, it can often have more than one. Such is the case with the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah.
Ann, hi. Thanks for sharing this with us. I am not sure I agree with you. Please, let me explain. You see there very different ways of thinking in Jewish sources too some are more linear and some are not. We can of course speak in terms of emphasis, but not really of Jewish vs. Greek mind (although this idea is very popular). For example prophecy fulfillment that is used so much in Matthew is almost absent in most other Jewish sources, BUT it is a method of choice of many Dead Sea Scrolls works. What I am saying is that the matter is more complicated than simply dividing it in these two black and white categories. Let us keep thinking together on this one, OK?
…this is my first time in a forum like this. Before I make any comments I would like to see if I’m proceeding correctly.
Jennifer, welcome. The only think I ask of participant is to be respectful of one another and to keep their comments relatively to the point :-). Once again welcome.
Que hermoso y necesario es el entendimiento entre hermanos hebreos y cristianos.
I love how you worded your conviction, which is the same as mine: IN THE END BOTH CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM WILL COME TOGETHER AS EACH REALIZES BOTH ITS OWN ERRORS AND EACH OTHER’S TRUTHS. I sometimes use the metaphor that EACH ONE HOLDS THE KEYS TO THE OTHER’S LOST or LOCKED ROOM OF TREASURES. Thank you so much for writing what you did. I would like to follow your site even though I remember almost nothing of the Russian I learned years ago. Is there any way to access a translation of some of it?
Thank you, Carol… re: my blog – the only way to read it in English for now is through Google translator 🙁
Dr. Eli, I think you have to break down this message for us. The whole numbering system and how it affects meaning is a bit complicated. No wonder Yeshua-ben-David, the Messiah made it easier for us to follow Hashim.
Actually, the interruption helped. I don’t think I’d have understood anything at all from Ariel. He says the whole Torah talks about the Messiah. have you read his book to give us a bit of insight?
Gematria is indeed a complecated system that can be very easy to those who took the time to master it. You can do you own basic research and what it is, but I though you could start here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria and here http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Magic_and_the_Supernatural/Practices_and_Beliefs/Incantations/Names_and_Numbers/gematria.shtml
I did not read his book. I am just now beginning to make my mind up about all of this 🙂 together with you. This is the wonderful thing about our group. I am learning together with everyone here.
You clearly have some Gematria going on. This is also not as out-landish as it may first seem for example one of the top new testament scholars
Richard Bauckham sees clear Gematria use in 153 fish that disciples cought after Jesus resurrection (http://books.google.co.il/books/about/The_Testimony_of_the_Beloved_Disciple.html?id=QQzjDM_L7-oC&redir_esc=y) this is just to give one example.
Am I comfortable with this method? No :-), but even I can’t help but acknowledge that there is some at least limited use of it in New Testament in particular.
I do agree with Ariel, I’m happy to find some answers for my life through this conversation.
God be blessed forever ! We live very hard times, yet JESHUA HAMASSIAH is WONDERFUL. Baruch Hashem !
http://sofar.uw.hu/
Jesus said “Seek and you will find” (Luke 11.19). I believer that Ariel Cohen Alloro has been willing to seek the truth regarding the salvation offered to the Jews and to the Goyim (Other nations). I however think he has not fully found the answer as of yet. But it is interesting to see the discussion regarding his search. And I believe the search is regarding the Messiah through all the Tanakh as Ariel has said. I believe that the truth is revealed in the scriptures and we need to understand it in our thinking. God says “Come Let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow” (Isaiah 1.18) But we must then receive what we have found. John said “But to as many as received Him (the Messiah) to them he gave the right to be called the children of God.” (John 1.12). We must learn about the Messiah as Ariel is doing but then we must also receive the Messiah in order to take this knowledge to its logical conclusion which I don’t think Ariel has yet done. To emphasis again that the Messiah is taught throughout the Tanakh and our searching must begin there as Arial has said. Jesus taught the men on the road to Emmaus all about Himself from the Tanakh. He did not have a New Testament available to use to explain Himself to them.
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. (SKJV – Simplified King James Version (BIBLE DOOR TRACTS, 2010), Lk 24:27.)
It’s an interesting albeit sometimes hard to understand video. It just confirms my conviction that in the end both Christianity and Judaism will come together and realize both its own errors and each other’s truths.
Excellent take, Mr. Elijah!
I think exactly the same, not only from a historical perspective of the offenses commited by each side (infinitely more by Christians! by the way, I’m a Cristian) and the need of acknowledgement of sins, repentance and forgiveness, but also from a theological standpoint. We are two brothers (Shem and Japhet) that are suffering alone, away from each other in the cold weather, but needing each other desperatly. In my view (please forgive my sharp words!), Christians in general are more like lost sheeps, carried by the winds of culture. Jews, in their turn, have a profound comprehension of Hashem, but have lost the main component of their religion – sacrifice, propitiation. In Scriptures, there is no forgiveness without sacrifice. Jesus provided the real sacrifice prefigurated in the ancient Scriptures — the sacrifice announced 700 years before, in Isaiah 53.
According to Revelation 12:17; 14:12 God’s people in the last days would be those who “keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony/faith of Jesus Christ” — they have the Law AND the Messiah. For example, the most of Christianity have faith in Jesus, but doesn’t keep the commandments of God, specially the Sabbath. The Jews are right to stand for an institution stablished in Eden, confirmed in the Sinai and reafirmed by Jesus (Matt 5:17-19; 12:8) and His apostles (Acts 16:13). The most of Christianity have the Sunday — a day officially imported from a heathen tradition by Constantin/Catholic Church in the 4th and 5th centuries – and bought by almost all protestant/evangelical branches.
So, if we believe that the Scriptures are the word of God, we will see not only the real Messiah in them, but also the moral God’s commandments (not man’s). Both are intertwined. The Psalm 1, for example, talks about the Law, and Psalm 2, about the Anoited one. God’s Word is deep!
It leads us to a great reunion of Japhet and Shem (Gen 9:27) that already hapenned in first century, but wil happen again, but in full power in the end of times, that is: now! God doesn’t have a plan for the Jews and another for Christians (this is Greek dicotomy, Greek residual philosophy in evangelical theology). God has only one plan for Jews and Gentiles: salvation by faith in Christ, the Messiah. Both will be in the New Jerusalem, both will sit with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Matt 8:11). There is only one plan of salvation and no distinction of peoples (Gen 12:3; John 3:16; Rom 10:12).
I strongly believe that many, many Jews were and will be saved even without having accepted the Messiah, because they were not given the opportunity to know Him. Sadly, Christians painted before them another Jesus that wasn’t that the real One. When the real Jesus be preached — that is: the preaching of the “eternal gospel” (Rv 14:6; Mt 24:14) — all Israel (col Israel = the Israelites + the Israel by faith, Dt 29:10-15; 1Kgs 8:41-43, 65) will be gloriously (Rm 11:12) united around the Messiah and his Word, and then He will come back in glory as the King of Kings (Melech Ha Melachim, Rev 19:16). Then everyone, specially the Israelites, will say: “Blessed is he that come in the name of the Lord” (Matt. 23:39).
This is not only my dream, but a strong prophecy.
Forgive me for the long comment. It wasn’t planned, just happened… 🙂
Shalom everyone!
In Jesus,
Diogo
¡Magnífica y bien documentada reflexión! Reciba mi mas cordial saludo.
BS”D
Hola Juan!
gracias por tu consideración, no dejes de acompañarnos en estos foros!
Eric.