Testimony Of The Things That Must Soon Take Place (rev.1:1-2) – Dr. Eli Lizorkin-eyzenberg And Peter Shirokov

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Rev. 1:1-2

The work known to us as “Revelation of John” begins similarly to other Jewish apocalyptic writings:

Rev.1:1-2 set forth 1) what it is (a revelation of Jesus Christ), 2) why it was given (to show to his bond-servants the things which must soon take place), 3) how it was given (God sent it to be communicated it by His angel) and 4) who in fact was the primary recipient of this revelation (his bond-servant, John, who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw).

In order for you to see that the opening section of this book is a type of apocalyptic opening that is, if not typical, then fully acceptable for this Jewish literary genre (apocalyptic literature), we will briefly review a few relevant examples. In Enoch 1:1-2:

“The word of the blessing of Enoch, how he blessed the elect and the righteous, who were to exist in the time of trouble; rejecting all the wicked and ungodly. Enoch, a righteous man, who was with God, answered and spoke, while his eyes were open, and while he saw a holy vision in the heavens.

This the angels showed me. From them I heard all things, and understood what I saw; that which will not take place in this generation, but in a generation which is to succeed at a distant period, on account of the elect.”

We also read in 3 Baruch 1:1-8 (Apocalypse of Baruch):

Verily I Baruch was weeping in my mind and sorrowing on account of the people, and that Nebuchadnezzar the king was permitted by God to destroy His city… and behold as I was weeping and saying such things, I saw an angel of the Lord coming and saying to me: Understand, O man, greatly beloved, and trouble not thyself so greatly concerning the salvation of Jerusalem, for thus saith the Lord God, the Almighty. For He sent me before thee, to make known and to show to thee all (the things)… and the angel of the powers said to me, Come, and I will show thee the mysteries of God.

The above passages clearly establish that what we read in Revelation’s opening verses is in fact very similar to other Jewish apocalyptic accounts either authored during or traceable to roughly the same time period.

The Jewishness of the Book of Revelation is so obvious that a number of scholars who don’t see Jesus traditions as originally Jewish, erroneously concluded that the current form of the Book of Revelation is full of clustered Christian interpolations (mostly in Chap.1 and 22). They maintain that the original pre-Christian version had no distinctively Christian theological trademarks. Such charge of Christianization of the original Jewish Book of Revelation has been argued by these and other points as follows:

If one removes “the Christian material”, the text itself can be read just as smoothly, if not more smoothly (alleged Christian interpolations to the Jewish original are in bold type). So for example in Rev. 1:1-3 we read:

The revelation [of Jesus Christ,] which God gave [him] to show his servants what must soon take place; he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testified to the word of God and [to the testimony of Jesus Christ], even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and who keep what is written in it; for the time is near.

Although intriguing, we view the above exercise as futile and utterly subjective. We argue that some other portions of this and other sections could also be cut without causing many problems and with the same level of success. This in and of itself proves nothing. There are also other things to consider.

Please, let us illustrate. It has been observed that the Samaritan version of the Torah reads much more smoothly than the Jewish Torah. Jewish Torah is far more unpolished and at times inconsistent and convoluted in its presentation of events. But, if anything, the smoother reading argues for later editorial activity of the Samaritan scribes and not vice versa.

Our understanding in this case is, just because the text reads more smoothly once the explicitly “Christian” content is cut out, this is no indication of anything significant. To conclude more than that, is to overstate the evidence that is otherwise nothing more than a curious and intriguing possibility that has absolutely no evidence to back it up.

But there is another more central problem that we think plagues those who argue that the original Jewish Apocalypse (Book of Revelation) was Christianized by someone in the end of the first century or even later. In short, they fail to see that such phrases (designated by them in bold) as Jesus Christ and his “testimony” (among others) are first century Jewish names and concepts that only centuries later became alienated from their original Israelite connection. The argument for differentiation between Jewish and Christian material is therefore anachronistic and artificial.

What do you think? How to you respond to the above argumentation?

 

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  1. Fred Aguelo

    Hi Catrina,

    I think there is some confusion here about salvation & sanctification. Of course, we look to Yeshua who gave us the way to obey Torah. His is the only way to a life of faithfulness. We never follow Torah by our own capacity because we can’t. We have to trust that the resurrection power which theHoly Spirit provides thru Yeshua will enable us to work the works of YHWH which He prepared for us beforehand.

    Shalom!

    Fred

  2. gustavo vargas angel

    Catrina, hip, hip, hurray¡
    However, I can see almost the happenings before Zebulon & Nephtali(see Isa9:2)., because now you also can see “god money” ruling each action, no matter the neighbor/tomorrow; but I still keep hope in the fast &soon coming of Jesus to make all things right again, as ever should have been.
    Come thy Kingdom so soon as possible¡
    Best regards.

  3. Catrina Crawford

    “And for this cause He is the mediator of the New Testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.” Hebrews 9:15 Did I take something out of context that I am not aware of yet? <3 <3 <3

  4. Catrina Crawford

    “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. …But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.” Hebrews 11:6

  5. Catrina Crawford

    “For, brethren, you have been called to liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” GALATIANS 5:13-14 I am self learned through prayer, reading, listening to many teachers, and many hard life lessons <3

  6. Catrina Crawford

    In God.” John 3:19-20 Not that believers with the Holy Spirit won’t break the Law, which does not bend or forgive, but because we are grateful for the love & Grace of Jesus, that we love Jesus in return, and thereby God’s Word, which is Jesus. If we love Him we will want to please Him and have repentent hearts that are open to truth & rebuke <3

  7. Catrina Crawford

    “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought

  8. Catrina Crawford

    “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.” John 3:14-15 where did the Israelites have to set their eyes to be healed of the snake bites? We too are to keep our eyes on Jesus, not the Law that we are incapable of fulfilling

  9. Catrina Crawford

    Good morning Dr. Eli, I may be way off topic for this article, but I was wondering if you have any insight to what “wormwood” actually is? I have read many commentaries on it, but it seems to be one of those terms that is still not understood. Our water has been making many sick around here for a few years and has led me to seek understanding.

  10. Fred Aguelo

    Lets please observe the three simple rules of interpretation – context, context, context.

    Fred

  11. Fred Aguelo

    Hi Catrina,

    There is no argument here. I suggest that you seriously study the letter to the Hebrew in its original form so you will clearky understand what the Hebrew mindset of trusting/faith really is from the beginning. Open your heart to what he original message of Good News not to some westernized theological opinion.

    Fred

  12. gustavo vargas angel

    Dear Dr. Eli:
    My question is :
    What is the real meaning about the women in the sky(Rev.12)? I have had some explanations but none “make my day”. Thank you, double best regards.

  13. Catrina Crawford

    When I look at Him and not me then I can do things I never thought was possible, but as soon as I start recognizing that and get big headed I fall hard because it was never me doing the right thing, but Him that lives in me. So when I am not doing the right thing it is because I am focused on me and not on Him, but when I show love it is always Him

  14. Catrina Crawford

    But with the flesh the law of sin.” Romans 7:4-6, 24-25 Like Peter who was able to walk on water as long as his focus was on Jesus, we too are able to fulfill the Law of God only by keeping our focus on Him rather than on our flesh. As soon as Peter looked at his surroundings he changed his focus to his own capabilities and began to sink…

  15. Catrina Crawford

    But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. …O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God…

  16. Catrina Crawford

    “Wherefore my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death. But now we are..

  17. Catrina Crawford

    Actions show the Spirit of the enemy. This is his meaning from what I can tell when he says not all Jews are Jews <3 <3 <3

  18. Catrina Crawford

    Against the ways of the world that we have brought into the body. I can feel John’s passion for his people which were Jews, because I feel that for Christians today. I also feel his rebuke to his own people for their lack of understanding the love command bc I have felt it my whole life from many who claim to be the hands & feet of Jesus, but their

  19. Catrina Crawford

    As a practicing Christian I can very much relate to John’s Jewishness bc as I get so frustrated with fellow members of the Church, which is us, (self-included), for misrepresenting our Lord that some may even think I am against the Church. But it’s actually the opposite. I love the Church, which I am a member of its body, which is why I speak out a

  20. Catrina Crawford

    Creation is priceless & yet cost our God nothing; we cost Him everything, so how much are we worth to Him? Heard that recently and made me really look at what He has done for His Love for us <3 <3 <3

  21. Prof. Peter Shirokov

    Mat 5:17-20 paints a picture that Torah and Prophets are permanent! Rewards and kingdom status are based on faithfulness to the commandments per Jesus. “fulfill” cannot mean anything negative as in end, cancel, abolish or do away with. “destroy” is a negative verb with this meaning and “fulfill” is in direct opposition, thus has to be positive.

    1. Catrina Crawford

      From my understanding through reading His Word & prayer, especially recently, I do not know me, but He does, and He says we are ALL sinners saved by Grace…Grace cannot be earned or it would not be grace; it is a FREE gift to us that came at a huge price for Him, the only One that could fulfill the Law perfectly. Jesus says He came not to abolish

      1. Catrina Crawford

        But to fulfill it. He also says that we cannot re wove our inheritance until He does first…our inheritance is the Holy Spirit, which I take as like the Seed broken to grow( like in Ezekiel 17 I think). The more we know Him, the more we come into ourselves bc He is in us, and us in Him, and He & the Father are One; therefore, it is ONLY through Hi

        1. Catrina Crawford

          His fulfillment of the Law; His finished work on the Cross, that we are ABLE to fulfill the requirements of the command, which He says is LOVE as He has loved us & laid down His Life for us. Hence, we die to fleshly selves, and He lives in us making us His Righteousness <3 <3 <3

  22. Prof. Peter Shirokov

    I still do not understand Sonya’s logic. Jesus fulfilled the law, so no one else has to follow it now? Translation: Jesus drove the speed limit and never got a fine, so now everyone can disregard the traffic laws? 🙂 NT leads me to believe that Jesus did not come to cancel the law but to show how it should be followed, by his own example.

  23. gustavo vargas angel

    Prof. Shirokov:
    Sometimes I came to think who Jesus came to make us free from religious ties, showing us the right way to come to G-d, unchaining us from rites(many times very heavy to follow),uses as i.e.: purification before incoming the temple,the scapegoat,the lamb,etc., Do am I wrong about? I mean among others. Best for you

  24. Kat

    I have always been under separation of church and state, so I am wondering what the differences are between “religious practices” and what I see in the Torah as a government? What did they see as the differences?

    1. Fred Aguelo

      Dear Kat,

      GOD created the nation of Israel out of nothing not politics. The reason why you can’t see a separation between church & state is because there’s none. GOD rules the affairs of men even though man tries to keep Him out if it. Man is suppose to rule under the guidance if GOD as mandated in Genesis.

      Fred

      1. Kat

        Thank you Fred,
        Thy Kingdom come!

      2. Catrina Crawford

        I believe we do see a separation between church & state when Israel wanted an earthly king instead of recognizing their heavenly King if kings. God told them through Samuel what would come of that relationship…which is from what I can tell much of the conflict we still have today. We want His blessings and all that entails but we struggle in trus

  25. gustavo vargas angel

    Dear Sonia Ann Azzopardi:
    To you question: that is because they did not learn the lesson yet , that is all. Best for you.

  26. Sonia Ann Azzopardi

    Hello Brothers and Sisters,

    I have traced my family tree back to 12th Century Spanish Jews and find this highly interesting, however I just don’t get that if Christ came to give us freedom from religious practices that bind us like oxen to a plough, why most Jews and Christians still keep repeating the same mistakes?

    1. Prof. Peter Shirokov

      Dear Sonia. I am not sure I understand your question… Did Jesus come to free me from practices God commanded in Torah, from being Jewish? Can’t make sense of your question. NT teaches that Jesus came to free people from sin and death, not from religious practices. 🙂

      Glad everyone is enjoying the posts on Revelation. More is coming…

      1. Sonia Ann Azzopardi

        The Law you follow was fulfilled in Christ, only He could live a life according to Moses which was to hard/strict for humans to follow, thus even though u think u are pleasing God in fact you are making God even more angry! It is only when we have faith in God that we truly fulfil the law. U r slaves 2 a law that has been fulfilled Rd Gal 3:15-29

        1. Prof. Peter Shirokov

          On a personal note, I prefer to see myself a “slave to God” who happens to have laws that regulate our relationship. How is Gal 3 (written to non-Jews who were not subject to Torah, yet seeking to get circumcised) apply to Israel? Faith precedes Torah and there is no law without faith!

          1. Sonia Ann Azzopardi

            Your forgetting that there is no Jew there is no Gentle, look if Christ couldn’t get through to you lot sure I won’t either, though I will pray for you to see the light even though you and shackled with an obsolete law. Do you really think you can rebuild the temple again without God’s say so. Last post as falling on still deaf ears and blind eye

        2. Cathy Arvin

          Sonia, read Matt. 5:17 and on from there. Tell me how I did not come to abolish the law translates for you. No where does it say that he came to do away with G-d’s law that would make Him a false prophet. He is the living incarnet Torah, he didn’t come to do away with Himself. Don’t be lawless, it doesn’t work out for those who are.

          1. Cathy Arvin

            Sonia you are right there is no Jew or Greek (Gentile) all in Messiah are a part of Israel – G-d’s Israel. Sin is transgression of the Torah (LAW). We obey G-d’s law because we Love Him and said “IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS!” It is not done to be saved, it is done because we are saved……through grace! the only way one can be saved.

          2. Catrina Crawford

            His focus was on his own capabilities. When I focus on quitting smoking instead of His Grace, I smoke even more bc looking at it makes me think more about it. Have u ever accidentally glued something in the wrong place & when u tried to fix it the whole project got totally messed up? That’s what we do by focusing on the Law rather than His Grace <3

          3. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

            Friends, I will be only approving comments that have to do with the themes of the articles :-). If you chose to to continue the conversation about other topics you are encouraged to do so off line via private emails. Thank you so much for your understanding. Dr. Eli

          4. Sonia Ann Azzopardi

            If u think u are saved keeping 633 laws the good for u, I am saved because I follow Christ & His teachings not Moses, I love God & I love my neighbour, I don’t follow laws or rules as Christ does not chain me, His burden is light, even Moses couldn’t keep the Law, He didn’t trust God with all his heart n failed to get into the promised land! Peace

          5. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

            Dear Sonia and friends, I humbly ask and encourage all parties involved in this and other forum discussions to keep discussions ONLY to the themes of the article. This is the request I make as administrator of this forum I will not be in the future approving all the comments that come to the blog that have nothing to do with the content of the post itself. Any one is free however to exchange emails and to continue these conversations offline. Thank you for your understandings. Dr. Eli

    2. Brad Thompson

      There are two types of religious practices. The first and true type is from God and the second is from man. I believe that God has implemented religious practice to help people keep focused on God. It seems that sin occurs when people take their eyes off God, or move their attention away from God to things of this world; lust, pride, ambition, etc

    3. Brad Thompson

      The problem arises when our religious practices move away from God’s implemented religious practices. This can happen both in Judaism and Christianity. When Moses went up to the Mountain to receive God’s teachings, the mixed multitude sinned against God. Exodus. However God has a higher goodness than man can understand fully.

      1. Prof. Peter Shirokov

        Brad, religious practices are not the problem in my opinion. Sin corrupts all things, even the good things. If the core problem is dealt with, external matters or ritual and internal matters of their meaning can be restored to proper standing. Did Jesus come to deal with sin?

        1. Brad Thompson

          Yes Sir – Teacher.. I agree with you that sin is the ultimate problem. Sin seems to permeate everything and is within all organizations; both secular and religious – since these organizations are made up of people. This was what I was trying to convey.

        2. Brad Thompson

          Jesus did come to deal with the penalty for sin once and for all. However, we are still responsible for the good or evil choices we make. I’m great full God has made a way for me to deal with my sin, however, I still have a work to do – which is repentance from my bad choices. We are ultimately responsible for our choices.

        3. Brad Thompson

          I thought what Sonya was making a point about western religious practices as a person would see in Western Catholic churches or perhaps in Greek or Russian Orthodoxy. There are many good things associated with these churches, but there are questionable practices such as confessing sins to the Priest or Father or Bishop or Pope; said with respect.

    4. Brad Thompson

      God has mercy on the sinner before they sin. God has mercy on the sinner after they sin and has repented. He is slow to demonstrate His anger by inflicting punishment, waiting instead for the sinner to repent. He abounds also in truth, faithfully rewarding those who obey Him. God’s Way is not the easiest way, but it’s the right way.

  27. gustavo vargas angel

    Dear Fred: Absolutelly ok with you, about a progressive revelation on Jesus, and about Torah, I think it was wrote to do better people, believers in the ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER. Best regards.

  28. gustavo vargas angel

    To Fred Aguelo:
    Read Gal. 5: 1-18 there is your answer. Best for you

    1. Fred Aguelo

      Dear Gustavo,

      Please take my words in context. We are all saved by grace. But the Torah was given to create, sustain & prosper man. Two systems, one given thru Moshe & the other given thru Yeshua. The Yorah was never meant to save man but to lead man to Yeshua. Again we see a progressive revelation. Yeshua didn’t come to abolish Torah.
      Fred

  29. Paul Cyrus

    Thank you so much for your reply.

    Peace
    Paul CY

  30. Paul Cyrus

    I would love to view your teaching of this book. Is there any way I can learn this book from you on line or DVD

    Thanks
    Paul

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      It has not been written yet. We’ve just began. Sign up for updates on this site and you will get these in email as we move through the book.

  31. Paul Cyrus

    I have known for a long time this letter of the unveiling is to the Hebrews. It is full of Isa and Deut .ZEch quotes.

  32. Cathy Arvin

    Zec 14:12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.
    What else would that description be but a nuclear bomb?

  33. Cathy Arvin

    Working with thematic connections you can look at words and fraises as well as ideas and find them in other locations in scripture. Plagues for instance are not just deceases. So when you look at plagues being discussed, you can even think Nuclear bomb. Zec :14:12

  34. Kat

    Yes, but people who have been left speechless often learn how to recognize others with similar experiences by studying their words intently 🙂

    1. Prof. Peter Shirokov

      That is the goal, friend…

  35. Kat

    Our words are influenced by people too. I understand the Hebrew mindset was public (other oriented). Their public appearance to others was important to them. What connects “adding to or taking away” to editing rather than hearing and doing? Sorry, my head is spinning from all of my influences 🙂

    1. Peter Shirokov

      You are right all of us are influenced by others. Public mindset – yes, I see that. What is missing for us is that John and his audience have been influenced by the same factors, same texts, life and spiritual ideas, many of which we would not recognize even by staring right at them. 🙂

  36. gustavo vargas angel

    Take of or add some words to Revelation, may be only a matter of interpretation or translation, according the language to which it goes: considering over 30 , and not all of them uses the same word for the same meaning. Take a look around, that is better than arguments.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      I think it is a warning to scribes who were known to edit materials they copied.

      1. Dave Ness

        The last words of revelation really do cause some pause. It does seem to suggest that editing was a real possibility. I think what most modern scholars miss is the motivation of the scribe or translator to make a change. I think if you are a believer, afraid GOD would punish you, if a professional scribe – the your reputation. Paul didnt have NT sc

        1. Dave Ness

          …scholars he was referring too right? The believers themselves were coping these in the beginning with what I believe could be fear and trembling of misrepresenting what was given to them by GOD. My speculation. It could have been that letters written on Patmos had issues. Just extreme speculation on my part. What we have is what was intended.

  37. Ralph

    You cannot remove any words from the original text. To do so is blasphemy. Jesus identified himself to John. Nothing wrong with that. And remember anyone who removes or adds to this book is condemned. You cannot gut parts of the bible you do not agree with. Otherwise the Sodomites would remove all references to fornication. Leave the book alone

    1. Prof. Peter Shirokov

      Ralph, there are some who would try to take some phrases out because for them the book would read more authentically. Is it any better practice to add words in the text that were not there to begin with? Scholars assume that both kinds of editorial work was done to Rev. We do not agree because we see no evidence of that.

      1. Ralph

        Amen brother.

  38. Brad Thompson

    This morning I noticed the author used doulois and doulO or “slave”. The translator experts interpret this word as servant as it applies to Yochanan (John) and those like John an emissary for God. This, I believe, provides evidence of Jewish thought behind the writing. Jewish slaves were like workers; taken care of and shown mercy by their masters.

  39. Eric Rodriguez

    BS”D

    Yehoshua’ is the ‘Atiq Yomin עתיק יומין of the Book of Daniel, the first and oldest Apocalytical book, and that’s the origin of the expression of Paul in Col 2:9-10 He is who died in גלגלתא, he came as טלא דבדולחא, when He goes up, he receive קרומא דאויר and sent to us pure words אמר נקא being the רעוא דרעוין, פקיחא דלא נעין וחותם כל הבריאה

  40. gustavo vargas angel

    Dear Dr.:
    In noplace in Facts of the Apostles, is said who Luke is jew, but do is said who he is or came from Macedonia, which by those days, was a turkish and greek settlement or city, besides, his clothes were with greek feature, from where comes that he is greek; however, could have been a jews descendant whose foreparents had had a long time

    1. Peter Shirokov

      Besides the established church tradition (which is not usually substantiated) I am not aware of any hard evidence that Luke was not Jewish.

  41. Brad Thompson

    All the books of the New Testament, except for Luke and Acts, are Jewish. They were written by Jewish people who believe in Yeshua the Messiah. They grew up Jewish, were instructed in Jewish thought and customs. The connection between Messianic Jews or Hebrews and Messianic Goyim or Gentiles was never meant to be severed. See Gen.14.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Yes to everything with the exception of the alleged non-Jewishness of Luke. What are the reasons to think (as most do) that Luke was not Jewish?

      1. Brad Thompson

        The only evidence is that most scholars believe Luke was Goyim. At the same time they cannot prove it either beyond a shadow of doubt. It’s quite possible Luke was Jewish; He was a believer in Yeshua the Messiah and traveled with Paul a great Jewish teacher. In essence he thought like a Jew when it came to God’s truth, but wrote like a greek.

        1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

          The fact that most scholars believe he was not a Jew (goy) is no evidence. Once I heard a list of almost 10 arguments about why he was not a Jew. None was convincing.

          1. Brad Thompson

            Yes…thank you…

  42. gustavo vargas angel

    Lois Eaton:
    In the prime page, when is introduced this study, Dr. Eli includes a Revelation to Enoch, very similar to Johns Revelation, when starting, after that, I do not know. Greetings¡

  43. gustavo vargas angel

    To Robert Arthur Gillis: Please, do not be worry about the increasing of Ismael lineage, because they are coming to be christians. Best for you¡

  44. Lois Eaton

    Are there any writings similar to Revelation that date from before the advent of Yeshua?

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      yes, we will have this in our class also :-). The Book of Enoch is very similar.

  45. Fred Aguelo

    Dear Dr. Eli,

    What is transparent to me is that the message was delivered to John, a Jew, and therefore the message was said in a Jewish context to be understood by John. Any suggestion otherwise is preposterous and purely illogical. To accurately interpret Revelation therefore, the reader has to see with a Hebrew mindset.

    Fred

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      yes

    2. Kat

      Fred, I read Psalm 2. Somewhere on Dr. Eli website is insight into the word “strive”. This says it all. My New Jesus mindset influenced by ? would have replied “we are not under law, we are under grace”. My Old Exodus mindset influenced by ? cried out “help me” :)

      1. Fred Aguelo

        Kat,

        When you say, you’re under grace & not under the Law, do you mean you don’t observe the Law anymore? Yeshua observed the Law & christians should; however only those parts that are not specifically pertaining to Hebrews. Yeshua only rendered obsolete the sacrificial system but not especially the moral laws.

        Fred

        1. Kat

          Fred, Let’s just say evangelism didn’t seem to take into account my Ten Commandment beginnings. Proving it was my beginnings is proving Revelation’s Jewishness to me. 🙂

  46. Kostya

    I think this is well argued. You mentioned the Samaritan version of the Torah vs the Hebrew Torah. At least we have both versions of that. But where is the evidence for an ‘unchristianised’ Revelation to John? Did it have any currency at any time? To whom was it given? To a Jewish man also on Patmos?

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      There is no evidence that I am aware of. It is a pure speculation.

      1. Dave Ness

        I agree with you Kostya. Good deduction.

        @ Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg – Has there been any work studying the Greek of Revelation that suggests it was once in Hebrew. The Greek that I can see seems to suggest that the ideas are Hebrew but language was definitely Greek in origin. I am no Greek scholar though.

        1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

          I am not familiar of anything credible. There has been attempts to show that it was Revelation was once Jewish in a sense that it was not also Jesus’ type of Jewish.

  47. Robert Arthur GILLIS

    At this time, I am greatly troubled by the evident acceleration of Ishmael’s lineage [Islam] on the world stage and the significance of this fact in evidence. No appreciable reference to this prophesied development appears in the Christian Holy Bible. The rise of Islamic influence in virtually every cultural society, is generating trepidation!

    1. Cathy Arvin

      Daniel 2:42-43 – in the Hebrew you will can see the word there for mixed (Arav) H6151. There are sages who believe the last kingdom spoken of will be a kingdom mixed with the Arab’s (muslims) (Ishmael-Esau). But it is stated in Scripture that Esau will dwell in the face of his brothers. He is always mixed in among (The tares among the wheat).

      1. Peter Shirokov

        Interesting proposal… Yes there is that meaning there! We also have words like “ma’arav”, “erev” and “ma’ariv” come from this same root. Arabah desert?

    2. Peter Shirokov

      Dear Robert, there are some Christians who see the plagues and judgements of Rev as Arabs… If you are thinking about Islam as religion it would make sense that NT would not address it. The notion of religion (as a category) is foreign and unknown in biblical thought. The Bible does address many of the nations, kingdoms and lands by name though.

    3. Brad Thompson

      Messiah Yeshua was a Jew; He lived a perfect life; Thus He was a perfect Jew. I believe Messiah Yeshua nor His followers ever denounce Judaism; They all call us to a Messianic Jewish life style where Messiah Yeshua is the center of our desires, motivations, and life. Not all choose this path; and very few will be when He comes back.

  48. Kat

    Does Christianization have more than one meaning? I all too often make reference to God instead of Jesus because my vocabulary is underdeveloped. I see the reverse (all two often making reference to Jesus) in others. How did the NT writers now when to use Jesus and when to use God in their writings (besides God inspired)?

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Kat, I think that they were deliberate in their choice of words.

    2. Catrina Crawford

      Kay, I am just a student and follower, but I prayed about this question in 2006 when my father was in a coma and I kept catching myself cry out to Jesus in my prayers and asked if it was wrong to address the Son as the Father or if I was only supposed to pray in Jesus’ name TO the Father. John 1:1 practically jumped off the page it seemed. I have b

      1. Kat

        Catrina, I don’t shut people in crises out just because they misspell or call me by the wrong name. I can’t image the Father or the Son doing that. I do think John 1:1 speaks in our defense. I also found Dr. Eli’s insight on Adonai Tsvaot helpful. I am a student too.

        1. Catrina Crawford

          Sorry for my misspelling…on a small phone

        2. Catrina Crawford

          My point in sharing my experience with His name is that my name is Catrina, but my friends call me Trina, my siblings call me sis, my husband calls me honey, my children call me Mom, or Mommy if they want to soften me up, my granddaughter calls me Mommom, etc. I answer to them all, but some have a special meaning.

      2. Chris Peake

        If it’s any help, I pray TO the Father, THROUGH the Son, IN the Spirit.

        1. Kat

          Chris, evangelism reached me with a New Jesus mindset. This did not cause me to follow Jesus. I followed Jesus because of my established Old pre gospel, pre Jesus mindset -Exodus -10 Commandments. So I followed Christ because God revealed to me things I had no words for; but all the New Jesus words I got didn’t influence me to follow Christ. 🙂

          1. Fred Aguelo

            Hi Kat,

            Please read Ps 2 & Prov 30:4. You do all this by the power of the Hoky Spirit. ELOHIM gave Himself a Name in Ex 3 & we must use that Name.

            Fred

          2. Brad Thompson

            Romans comes to my mind; If we do naturally the things of God, although we do not have knowledge, then God counts as righteous. If we do the things of God, when we have knowledge, then God counts as righteous. Even though God is patient with us and provides us much grace; we should always strive to live holy lives. (Paraphrase)

          3. Brad Thompson

            I too when converted was impressed to follow the weekly Sabbath; the Sabbath our Messiah Yeshua kept. I was also impressed to follow God’s moral law found in Torah. Where did these insights come from? Man or God? I am the only Christian in my biological family so it’s safe to say that it wasn’t from man.

          4. Brad Thompson

            I’m still being impressed to follow God in ways I could not have imagined some 17 plus years ago. This too is from God. I’m not perfect, but I trust that God will lead me into all righteousness. I think this is the key…I believe He overlooks the small things we are not doing because of ignorance.

      3. edgar sanchez calderon

        catrina shalom no soy un ilustre escritor pero tengo un articulo en mi canal de youtube …edgar sanchez ISRAEL titulado bautizandolos en el nombre del Padre del Hijo y del Espiritu Santo, talvez sea de alguna ayuda.

        1. Catrina Crawford

          I only speak English so far, so it will take me a while probably to translate this. I do make out some words like YouTube, so I will start with looking for that. Shalom Edgar <3 <3 <3

        2. Catrina Crawford

          Edgar, thank you so much! I don’t know that I got the right videos, but I did see people being re-baptized in the Jordon River as a reaffirmation, and I am still in prayer about this for my daughter especially. They will be very helpful in my meditations. I also shared a memorial video to my Facebook. If that was your son, or family, I am sorry for

          1. Catrina Crawford

            Your loss. I am attending my 21 year old nephews calling hours today, and funeral Friday from a drinking & driving crash. He liked “the music” and I think his friends and loved ones will enjoy the song I shared about that from you. Bless you and your family always. And the translating was FUN <3 <3 <3

  49. Marcia New

    Thank you so much for this informative analysis. It surely makes me ‘hungry’ for further analyses of the rest of the Book of Revelation.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      More is coming. Hang in there! 🙂

  50. Cathy Arvin

    G-d has picked all the separate letters and writings that are contained in the Holy Scriptures. No one has the right to say which ones should or shouldn’t be in them. People need to believe G-d knows what HE is doing. They need to study to show themselves approved, that is what it is all about, serving Him and walking as HE has told us to walk.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Well… it is not that simple :-). On the one hand you are right of course, but the “devil”, as they say is “in the details”. God did not give Israel the BIBLE as we know it. He gave a large collection of sacred works during various times. They were not always sure what books were in and what books were out. The process of deciding on those issues was complicated one and the acceptance was not uniform. For example, Ethiopian Orthodox Church accepts the Book of Enoch, Roman Catholic Church accepts the Book of Maccabees, both are quoted/referred to in the NT but the Protestant Bible (66 books collection) does not accept them as God given.

      One is forced to say that people were part of Bible creation – I mean selection of books, position of those books in the Bible too is a human creation. For example, the Gospels are before Paul in our Bibles, while Paul wrote before the Gospels, etc.

      Let’s keep on thinking together.

      1. RamonAntonio

        It World be interesting to make a short explanation of the canonization of books in the Catholic Church. It will reveal a very interesting evolution for Epoch was originally accepted in pre canonical times. The canon was a later concept.

        1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

          Indeed. Ramon, welcome back, brother and friend! eli

    2. Lois Eaton

      Hi Cathy

      I was taught that G-d looked after His Word and so it came to us perfect. As I grew up, I firsts of all learnt that the king James Bible was NOT the original, as so many people in churches seem to think. Then, more recently, learnt that even in the Hebrew and Greek there have been minor changes – especially in the New Testament.

      1. Cathy Arvin

        Translations are not what came to us. They are useful tools, however you will always have the translators bios. You need to go to the original. The Tanach in Hebrew is reliable. There are very very few changes which can be shown by the dead sea scrolls. The new Testament we do not have the original writings, but we can us the Septuagint……..

      2. Cathy Arvin

        We can bring the Greek, back to the Hebrew, and get a better understanding of what is being said. Remember the entire book was written by Hebrew minded people. Also remember not to put G-d in a box. It is never the case of if someone is right the other way of seeing it is wrong. G-d is big enough for both to be right or for both to be wrong.

  51. Cathy Arvin

    Isa 34:16 Seek from the book of the LORD, and read: Not one of these will be missing; None will lack its mate. For His mouth has commanded, And His Spirit has gathered them.
    Isa 34:17 He has cast the lot for them, And His hand has divided it to them by line. They shall possess it forever; From generation to generation they will dwell in it.

  52. Catrina Crawford

    I have come to understand that it really doesn’t matter who wrote what in the Bible or elsewhere if my trust is in the One inspiring and guiding my reading and understanding. As I have been a skeptic, and still look for human error in the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit has answered questions for me about Scripture through Scripture.

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Hi, Catrina. There is a sense in which I agree with you fully. The obsession with the exact authorship is misguided. There is the ultimate author and that is the key. On the other hand, however, I disagree with you because that are many times when the Holy Spirit chooses to show us many things about authorship and when that is the case we are much edified when we consider it, because knowing who wrote it, to whom it was written, when and why oftentimes changes our interpretation of the Holy Text dramatically. So if we are mistaken about context, we may (and often do) misinterpret the words of the Holy One.

      1. Catrina Crawford

        Hi Dr. Eli 🙂 Thank you for your reply. I absolutely agree and actually believe your reply says the same:) I have misinterpreted and have been taught misinterpretations which is why depending and trusting in the only One that knows will ultimately lead to correct interpretation in His time when we are truly following Him <3 <3 <3

  53. Eric de Jesús Rodríguez Mendoza

    BS”D

    I have been studying this book for years and I have noticed a analogy between some Psalms and this book. e.g. Psalm 3 and Rev 1:1
    Mizmor, = גילוי = revelation
    ledavid, = ליהושע = of /for Yehoshua’
    beborcho mipney ‘avshalom = אשר נתן לו אלהים= which God gave him..

    David is considered a messianic prophet indeed!!

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Eric, please, explain what is the connection that you see.

      1. Eric Rodriguez

        BS”D
        It’s short and simple:
        kind of writing: Mizmor/ revelation
        Author/dedicated to: David/Yehoshua’
        Description/containing: when he fuged/ which gave him God….

        1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

          🙂

  54. Robert Arthur GILLIS

    The above argument prompts much thought through its persuasive extrapolations respecting the subjective interpretation imparted in this argument! However, – the aspiring Student’s quest for more insightful interpretation, is present, and quickens inspiration to learn more!

    1. Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

      Yes, this is the main idea :-).